Osage Roost
General Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: BigTomsCalls on March 23, 2010, 04:03:50 PM
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Are we all this STUPID!!!
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The most Pompous person outside Obama on the planet! Unbelievable statement!
Mike
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Shes Ugly and I cant stand Her...her face looks like a plastic Surgeon was on Crack !!! Everything out of her mouth makes me want to vomit!! Cant wait until Election Time !!!
Live Free or Die !!! USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA
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All I can say is... *fall* *fall* *fall*
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... "dumb as a stump" - baaa-baaaa said the sheep ... :-\
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Adds new meaning to the phase, "You Democrat!" ROTFLMBO
The Geezer
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The stats dont lie..
(http://www.statice.is/lisalib/getfile.aspx?itemid=6194)
The people of most all of the countries in the industrialized world are outliving Americans. The Canadians who are not listed in this particular chart outlive Americans by 3-5 years on average. The obesity and diabetes epidemic is a distinctly American problem and will only exaggerate this difference in life expectancy over the next 10 years. Its worth noting that most of the countries ahead of the US are coincidentally in some form of Socialized Medicine.
I havent had the chance to read over all the nuances of the new Bill, however, as a health care worker I'm glad to see steps be made to insure all Americans. The legislation passed does not resemble the Canadian health care model, nor does it resemble the French model. From what I'm seeing the model is somewhat unique in that private insurance is still marketable.
Before you all go off the deep end, give it a chance. There is one undeniable truth about Socialized Healthcare, and that is there is a heavier tax burden placed on the citizens. One has to ask,... "what is my life worth? Am I willing to die earlier over a 5-15% increase in taxation?" That figure isnt made up, thats the average difference in taxation in these countries.
The nice thing about American legislation is that if its immensely unpopular it can be repealed as was the case with Prohibition.
My greatest fear is that America will fall into the same trap as Canada and other countries. When totally socialized the healthcare system runs like the DMV. Thats not very efficient and certainly not pursuing excellence and innovation. America is an innovation leader in healthcare, I'm afraid bureacracy may stymie that progress.
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I havent had the chance to read over all the nuances of the new Bill, however, as a health care worker I'm glad to see steps be made to insure all Americans. The legislation passed does not resemble the Canadian health care model, nor does it resemble the French model. From what I'm seeing the model is somewhat unique in that private insurance is still marketable.
I've been on an Health Insurance Benefits Committee for several years. Health Insurance is the main reason I've stayed at my employment. My wife is a diabetic and it's the #1 priority for me.
What scares me about this is that I'm not sure anyone knows what is in this Bill. I always said if a Bill was done right, it would benefit everyone. I was hoping for the best, but (as you stated) time will tell... but my gut feeling is this is not the best.
At our employment, Our Third Party Administrators were really concerned about the first version and what it would do to them. As a health care worker, have you been told anything that would scare you?
Last we heard this bill will not affect our plan at work.
I have a friend that is not able to afford insurance on his wife and we'll see if this changes that. I doubt it and he does too. He's sure he'll have to foot the bill. I do know, costs are going up and a lot of it (per the Hospital reps we talk to locally) is do to people without insurance and not able to pay their bills.
I do like the no pre-existing condition rule in this bill, but what cost will that have on the plans.
I think to do this right, we need to have someone (that is very knowledgable to the health industry but neutral at the same time) come up with the bill. Not politicians!
As for what Pelosi said... nothing amazes me anymore..
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As a health care worker, have you been told anything that would scare you?
I'm not real sure yet, I'd imagine that funding to Medicare will be cut to one degree or another in order to pay for the currently uninsured population. This will be combined with some sort of new taxation. For smaller rural community hospitals who cater to mostly elderly Medicare patients this would probably hurt them financially. Larger safety net hospitals who are seeing a large number of uninsured patients may actually see some benefit.
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wiltznucs
How about a little info about the stats. Does the graph include homicides, abortions, accidental deaths or just death by natural causes. I am very cautious to believe a graph since they can be made to say what the originator wants them to say. How many of these countries that are ahead of the USA has gun control?? How many travel by bicycle?? How many has good drinking water?? UN says more people die of bad water then in wars. Spending 980 billion to save 180 billion is beyond me. This is a bad bill and I for one can not give it a chance. I will do my part in voting these people out of office this fall. I'm not trying to bust your chops, but graphs are a waste.
James
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wiltznucs
How about a little info about the stats. Does the graph include homicides, abortions, accidental deaths or just death by natural causes. I am very cautious to believe a graph since they can be made to say what the originator wants them to say. How many of these countries that are ahead of the USA has gun control?? How many travel by bicycle?? How many has good drinking water?? UN says more people die of bad water then in wars. Spending 980 billion to save 180 billion is beyond me. This is a bad bill and I for one can not give it a chance. I will do my part in voting these people out of office this fall. I'm not trying to bust your chops, but graphs are a waste.
James
James, exhausting ones self trying to find flaws in the measure is futile. I know,... I did a 20 page research paper on the topic no more than 2 months ago.
So far as the graph is concerned any death is included regardless of cause. Life expectancy measure does not discriminate for homicides, abortions, etc. Its all included in the stats. Using your logic and given the U.S's lower crime rate and Public Health system we should be well ahead of the rest of the world. Our roads and buildings have codes, our food and water is tested, our vehicles are the safest, we have the most comprehensive disease prevention system in the world, and the finest hospitals around. We're not ahead of the world and there is a reason..
The reason is simply a lack of insurance. Albeit a smaller population(10-25%), the uninsured die far younger than the insured population in the U.S.. There are socioeconomic and racial disparities as well. When this uninsured population is factored in to the overall life expectancy, the U.S. suffers immensely by comparison to the rest of the world. As you would expect, if we were to only include life expectancy among those with insurance then the U.S. would be among the highest on the list.
The graph before you is no lie, the U.S. is not behind third world countries but is well behind countries with a fraction of our resources or GDP. These are industrialized nations and not poverty stricken war zones.
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Not trying to find flaws, just the facts. Like I said, any graph can be made to say what the creator wants it to say. Lets take Ukraine for instance, which of the two Ukraines has the highest life expectancy??
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Lets take Ukraine for instance, which of the two Ukraines has the highest life expectancy??
Thats funny, I noticed that too. I reported it to the website who posted it. I'm thinking the "first" Ukraine is actually the spot Canada is intended to occupy..
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Look a little closer and you will see another one!! ROTFLMBO ROTFLMBO ROTFLMBO thats why I hate graphs
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Look a little closer and you will see another one!!
I spotted the Irish too... Theres much better graphs detailing this on the WHO website, but I cant link them here...
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World Health Organization?? Are they part of the UN??
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World Health Organization?? Are they part of the UN??
They are, and despite that the WHO is likely the single most reliable source for info from those less fortunate countries. For the U.S. data is gathered by Public Health Service or the CDC.
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Thought so. The same UN that is using false data to find a way around our Constitution so that they can strip our guns away and I bet they use WHO figures to make their graphs on gun control.
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This whole health care debate makes me ill! I see more ideology and power grabbing going on than actual concern for for what the public wants or needs!
Bill
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Thought so. The same UN that is using false data to find a way around our Constitution so that they can strip our guns away and I bet they use WHO figures to make their graphs on gun control.
Lets stay focused, this isnt a gun debate! ;)
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This whole health care debate makes me ill! I see more ideology and power grabbing going on than actual concern for for what the public wants or needs!
Bill
Now Bill, those representatives who passed the legislation did have a majority and were voted in by American citizens.
Just razzing ya... ;D
To be completely honest, if you would have asked me two weeks ago if legislation would have been passed I would have told you no. It is amazing that this came together so quickly..
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Just making a point. If the UN will use false facts to further their gun control measures, why wouldn't they use false facts at the WHO. By using WHO numbers they can convince countries that gun control is needed. It goes hand in hand. Just like in the US, medical papers and the CDC scream for gun control. Not only does this measure that was passed likely to get me kicked off of my companies health care, it will be used to further gun control. Now, why would I get kicked off of my companies plan, simple, they would have to pay $2000.00 for each individual on Obamacare and the first 38 I believe are exempt. 2 years ago they paid out close to 1 million dollars to save the lives of 3 premature babies. Our company is self-insured, just think of the savings.
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Just making a point. If the UN will use false facts to further their gun control measures, why wouldn't they use false facts at the WHO. By using WHO numbers they can convince countries that gun control is needed. It goes hand in hand. Just like in the US, medical papers and the CDC scream for gun control. Not only does this measure that was passed likely to get me kicked off of my companies health care, it will be used to further gun control. Now, why would I get kicked off of my companies plan, simple, they would have to pay $2000.00 for each individual on Obamacare and the first 38 I believe are exempt. 2 years ago they paid out close to 1 million dollars to save the lives of 3 premature babies. Our company is self-insured, just think of the savings.
I'm an idealist, I honestly believe money shouldnt be a consideration when it comes to health care. Unfortunately it is... Believe what you want, but healthcare reform is necessary. Am I convinced this Bill will do the job? Probably not, but I'm encouraged that we've made a start.
It may be foolish of me, but I'm willing to sacrifice a few of my hard earned dollars to see America's citizens live longer and healthier lives. So long as when my time of need comes I get the care that I need.
Major overhauls are needed for elderly care and particularly in mental health.
Even though they indirectly pay my check, I find the hit to the Insurance industry very satisfying. I view this as the tip of the iceberg of healthcare reform, following this I hope that the pharmaceutical industry is put in the crosshairs next.
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Chad
You have a back ground into this topic. Do you honestly see prices coming down for health care? I don't....I have over 150 employess and my company is self insured. Our out of pocket expenses per month are well over $100,000.00. Based on this "new deal", it will be cheaper for companies like mine, to pay the penalty and drop their insurance.......my difficulty is that my people deserve better!
Bill
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I'm like many not liking this ideal, but it's law now and we'll see how it goes. Luckily we all can do something and make our voices heard this November!
I also believe health insurance should be affordable by all and I think it should be good health insurance too!
bowrebel we are self insured too. Health costs are eating us for breakfast now... our trust fund is almost gone at our institution. It's very very scary.
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Bill, I agree. I could lose my coverage and be under Obamacare. I do not see how I can live a long and productive life with that type of care. Companies will look at the bottom line first. I agree with some of the measures like pre-existing conditions, but things like that could be done seperately. Elderly care, that is already run by the Government, they call it Medicare and look how bad off it is.
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Porter
A lot of companies are self insured. The insurance companies just manage the programs for them. I know at our company, if the insurance company says they will not pay a bill, we can call corporate and talk to them about it. If they say OK, the bill gets paid. Do you really think Obamacare will do that???
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Our local hospital and doctors have stopped accepting new Medicare patents! This isn't good for those of us reaching Medicare age!. This new plan will not do a thing to help future Medicare participants receive quality care!
Bill
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Chad
You have a back ground into this topic. Do you honestly see prices coming down for health care? I don't....I have over 150 employess and my company is self insured. Our out of pocket expenses per month are well over $100,000.00. Based on this "new deal", it will be cheaper for companies like mine, to pay the penalty and drop their insurance.......my difficulty is that my people deserve better!
Bill
Bill I cant tell you what the best decision for your company is. I can address the first question though. Do I see prices coming down? The answer is not really...
Like most companies a hospitals two biggest expenses are labor and supplies. Neither of those two items are getting cheaper. In fact supplies are going up exponentially in many cases. Hence my outrage with the pharmaceutical industry..
I always tell people that what we charge and what we get paid are two entirely different things. I may bill $5,000 for a procedure, but if your Insurer has contracted us we may only get $1,500 for instance. If our actual cost is $1,200 we actually make $300 on the deal. Factor in the uninsured or underinsured and those $300 victories dont go very far. Most hospitals in the country are operating in the red right now...
If however we get even a few dollars from those patients that are currently uninsured then hypothetically we should be able to bring prices down.
Like any other business, the key for the success of the new American health care system is competing the private vs. the public option. In principle the private insurer would do its best to entice the customer by offering better service at a lower or competitive price. If this actually occurs it will be a significant victory for the American citizen.
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This whole health care debate makes me ill! I see more ideology and power grabbing going on than actual concern for for what the public wants or needs!
Bill
The truth and whole truth be known......
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Chad
All that, is the way it should work, as long as politictions don't have a hand in the system! Unfortunately............our Govt. can't run anything at a profit. And to continue to give quality care is a function of profits not losses. With that in mind, where will the new advancements in medical care and equipment come from?
Insurance companies, last year made 15 billion dollars (profit) while Medicare lost 60 billion in fraude alone! Who pays for those losses? Tax payers! At some point, that well is going to dry up!!
Bill
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But how can you argue with this guy!!!
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(http://i44.tinypic.com/2h72xy0.jpg)
Am I the only one who chuckles when they read this headline?
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Wow what a bad choice of words.... I needed that today ROTFLMBO
Wonder how much *poo* that journalist has gotten... Nice heading dude RkLu
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Chad, I have read and said I would not post but... This is a disaster any way you slice it. I am not an alarmist or a chicken little. I have to great length studied this "bill" and it's wording is frightening! I am not going to debate this on this forum but you will see (mark my word) States assert their sovereign rights to the point that it will cause a political storm the likes we have not seen since the Civil War. Roe v. Wade is nothing compared to this.
Mike
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Chad, I have read and said I would not post but... This is a disaster any way you slice it. I am not an alarmist or a chicken little. I have to great length studied this "bill" and it's wording is frightening! I am not going to debate this on this forum but you will see (mark my word) States assert their sovereign rights to the point that it will cause a political storm the likes we have not seen since the Civil War. Roe v. Wade is nothing compared to this.
Mike
Mike, its undoubtedly heavy to read. I took the time to read over some today and gave it half an hour before popping an Excedrin.
I actually have a meeting next week with two Physicians who lobby for our area. They've spent a huge amount of time on Capital Hill. I'm sure they'll give me a straight and sanitized explanation of the Bill. I'll be sure to follow up with you guys afterward.