Author Topic: Occupy Wall Street, etc...  (Read 3002 times)

Offline longbeard48

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Occupy Wall Street, etc...
« on: November 01, 2011, 01:15:47 PM »
Has anyone taken note of these idiots?
Watch this video.  Takes about 6 minutes or so.  This has these folks figured out to a "T."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAOrT0OcHh0&feature=socblog_ti
Tom

Offline augiedog55

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Re: Occupy Wall Street, etc...
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2011, 01:30:56 PM »
great post.. they are a bunch of bratts that think they are entitled to all their wants and not work for anything. It come down to their parents not bringing them up right. I wish i could post links but i'm computer stupid. But if you are interested google Lawerence Odonnel interview with Oakland protestor.. You'll like it.

wiltznucs

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Re: Occupy Wall Street, etc...
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 07:30:50 PM »
The ability to have an organized civil protest is a fundamental tenant of democracy and is what has separated American society from the oppressive regimes overseas.  Like it or not, major changes in America have resulted from similar gatherings.  Labor unionization, womans suffrage, and the civil rights movement to name a few.

You and I may not agree with the "Occupiers" messages, but they want to be heard and as an American you should support their right to do so.  Theres nothing wrong with being a naysayer as there were those that didn't support a womans right to vote or racial integration either.

As an fyi, at the root of the Occupiers cause....  Most of the Fortune 500 companies are posting record profits and are sitting on trillions of dollars in cash right now.  Several are recording income levels never seen in history... Yet we have a 10% unemployment rate and are in a "recession"?  Most academic economists would agree that based on the reported revenues the "recession" is over and the Occupiers see what the companies are doing as simple greed.  

The gov't bailout gave loans to the banks that were at 5% or less and yet college students getting Federal Grad school loans are paying 10%?  Why is that?

So imagine your a recent college grad.  You're in debt out your ears and are dying to get to work.  The bills for your loans keep coming and you cant find a job.  You've applied, but they arent hiring.  But the companies are posting record profits. 

Fact, the gap between the ultra wealthy and the middle class is widening.  

Bill Whittle calls them the entitlement generation and uses the "things could be worse" argument.  The occupiers have a "things could be better" mentality and I think they may have some valid points...



« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 07:37:15 PM by wiltznucs »

Offline turkey stew

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Re: Occupy Wall Street, etc...
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 09:01:03 PM »
The ability to have an organized civil protest is a fundamental tenant of democracy and is what has separated American society from the oppressive regimes overseas.  Like it or not, major changes in America have resulted from similar gatherings.  Labor unionization, womans suffrage, and the civil rights movement to name a few.

You and I may not agree with the "Occupiers" messages, but they want to be heard and as an American you should support their right to do so.  Theres nothing wrong with being a naysayer as there were those that didn't support a womans right to vote or racial integration either.

As an fyi, at the root of the Occupiers cause....  Most of the Fortune 500 companies are posting record profits and are sitting on trillions of dollars in cash right now.  Several are recording income levels never seen in history... Yet we have a 10% unemployment rate and are in a "recession"?  Most academic economists would agree that based on the reported revenues the "recession" is over and the Occupiers see what the companies are doing as simple greed.  

The gov't bailout gave loans to the banks that were at 5% or less and yet college students getting Federal Grad school loans are paying 10%?  Why is that?

So imagine your a recent college grad.  You're in debt out your ears and are dying to get to work.  The bills for your loans keep coming and you cant find a job.  You've applied, but they arent hiring.  But the companies are posting record profits. 

Fact, the gap between the ultra wealthy and the middle class is widening.  

Bill Whittle calls them the entitlement generation and uses the "things could be worse" argument.  The occupiers have a "things could be better" mentality and I think they may have some valid points...




I agree 100%! The wealthy have been B.S. ing us for a long time! I have a  college degree and middle class job! I have been moving backward on wages and benefits the past several years when I should be at the top of my wage scale! The wealthy have increased by 350% since 1980 and have really benefited by the recent recession! There are a lot of people in the U.S. that are peeved at wallstreet and they are`nt all welfare recipients!

Offline augiedog55

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Re: Occupy Wall Street, etc...
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2011, 08:18:23 AM »
i agree that they have the right to protest anything.  But why is it called occupy wallstreet? Banks and wallstreet didn't bail themself out. Our Gov bailed them out. Why aren't they furious at the gov?? They should be in DC at the steps of the white house. Seem strange to you?  Sounds like misplaced  agreession OR well directed deflecton in a election yr.
 They could take a page out of the Tea Parties protests. They have -0- arrests , they follow the laws and the clean up when the protest are over.OWS has had over 3000 arrests to date.
 

wiltznucs

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Re: Occupy Wall Street, etc...
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2011, 08:51:39 AM »
i agree that they have the right to protest anything.  But why is it called occupy wallstreet? Banks and wallstreet didn't bail themself out. Our Gov bailed them out. Why aren't they furious at the gov?? They should be in DC at the steps of the white house. Seem strange to you?  Sounds like misplaced  agreession OR well directed deflecton in a election yr.
 They could take a page out of the Tea Parties protests. They have -0- arrests , they follow the laws and the clean up when the protest are over.OWS has had over 3000 arrests to date.

The fault for the economic collapse lies both in the hands of government and Wall St.  To be sure, the gov't was at fault for pressing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to issue subprime home loans.  They called it a program to realize the American dream, but it is really nothing more than a euphamism for extending loans to people who werent credit worthy(think Adjustable Rate Mortgages and Interest Only Loans).  The goal was to promote home ownership, but the program went terribly awry and that's where Wall St. comes in.  The Banks(Lehman Bros, AIG, etc.), didn't exercise any control of the situation and accepted income as stated and promoted home loans that were well beyond the applicants ability to pay.  Banks sheltered themselves from these high risk loans by selling them off as securities.  During the housing bubble all the world's developed nations invested in these securities as they were low risk and high return.  Homes were selling like hotcakes and increasing in value, so even in the case of a default the bank would likely recover all of their money and then some when the foreclosed home sold.  Then the housing bubble burst, and a huge amount of the world's wealth was tied up in a toxic asset.  Suddenly, the invested capital of much of the world was worthless.  The countries themselves had become subprime(Greece, Ireland, etc.)This triggered the global economic collapse.  That's right, the U.S. was the major cause of the global economic collapse.

The govt reaction to the crisis has been swift and decisive.  Within a matter of weeks the prime interest rate(the rate at which the Fed loans money to banks) was reduced to 0.1%.  The goal was then and is now to increase spending and thereby stimulate the economy.  It hasn't worked... Why?  The reason is that these major corporations are sitting on their profits.  They aren't spending a dime as they are worried about a double dip recession and their shareholders are thrilled with the huge dividends.  

The gov't had a role in triggering the collapse, but they have reacted and there is little more they can do.  The person who is keeping us in a recession/unemployment situation is the major corporations who are hoarding cash at the expense of the American working class.  The economy cannot rebound until they start distributing their wealth in the form of wages and thus create spending.

Fast forward 3 years and you now know why the "Occupy Wall St" movement got started..
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 08:58:51 AM by wiltznucs »

Offline augiedog55

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Re: Occupy Wall Street, etc...
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 09:04:32 AM »
Keep over regulation on  businesses   and put Obama care on the backs of businesses and you there is no reason for anyone to invest here.  Would you invest your $ here right now. I think not.This administration is the most anti business we have ever had. Stimulas one didn't work asndf now they want stimulas bill #2. They keep going back to failed policies and expecting different results.
 Did you see that fannie maie and freddie mac got bailed out to the tune of 150 billion $ and now are giving out bonuses.. 13 million dollars to the 2  top executives. Really?

MKW

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Re: Occupy Wall Street, etc...
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 09:07:56 AM »
The problem with this "Occupy" movement is, from what I've seen, these protesters are not the kind of people that ANY company would hire if they were hiring.

Mike

wiltznucs

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Re: Occupy Wall Street, etc...
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 09:15:20 AM »
Keep over regulation on  businesses   and put Obama care on the backs of businesses and you there is no reason for anyone to invest here.  Would you invest your $ here right now. I think not.This administration is the most anti business we have ever had. Stimulas one didn't work asndf now they want stimulas bill #2. They keep going back to failed policies and expecting different results.
 Did you see that fannie maie and freddie mac got bailed out to the tune of 150 billion $ and now are giving out bonuses.. 13 million dollars to the 2  top executives. Really?

Healthcare reform is another debate alltogether.  

The invest in America notion is certainly heroic from an nationalism standpoint but its also highly flawed.  Capitalism works because of competition, the lowest price and best product wins.  Buying American just for the sake of it in an economic context is actually moronic.  Would you pay $5 a gallon for gas drilled in TX or go right next door and get $3 a gallon from Egypt?  The buy American idea worked 20 years ago, but things have changed now.  It's easy to say you'll pay the $5, but I'd bet in practice you'll go next door.  It's been proven time and again that the economic philosophy of protectionism does not work.

The world is now a global economy and companies that do not work overseas wont be around in 20 years.  A huge amount of the world's wealth(40% or more) is now in emerging markets.  Many American companies probably wouldnt be around if it werent for overseas sales.(General Motors)

America still has one major advantage in the global economy and its brain power.  We will never be a major manufacturing center again as Capitalism wont allow it to happen here because we've become an educated society and labor is cheaper elsewhere.  We need to tap into the ideas and educated people we have at our disposal in order to take our country into the next century.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 09:25:49 AM by wiltznucs »

wiltznucs

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Re: Occupy Wall Street, etc...
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 09:21:08 AM »
The problem with this "Occupy" movement is, from what I've seen, these protesters are not the kind of people that ANY company would hire if they were hiring.

Mike

By that you mean college educated, fiscally responsible free thinkers?  Let's not allow the few bozos that Fox News rounded up be a measure of the entire group.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 09:21:47 AM by wiltznucs »

MKW

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Re: Occupy Wall Street, etc...
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2011, 09:27:31 AM »
The problem with this "Occupy" movement is, from what I've seen, these protesters are not the kind of people that ANY company would hire if they were hiring.

Mike

By that you mean college educated, fiscally responsible free thinkers?  Let's not allow the few bozos that Fox News rounded up be a measure of the entire group.

But, I have to take Fox News reports as my measuring tool cause it's the only news that I watch. The other news outlets only spout liberal garbage.  ;D

Mike

wiltznucs

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Re: Occupy Wall Street, etc...
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2011, 09:28:46 AM »
But, I have to take Fox News reports as my measuring tool cause it's the only news that I watch. The other news outlets only spout liberal garbage.  ;D

The good news is you sound smart enough not to take all reporting at face value regardless of the station's political stance.

MKW

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Re: Occupy Wall Street, etc...
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2011, 09:34:35 AM »
Yeah, I know all those protesters are not potheads taking dumps in the park, but those have got to be the funnest one's to interview!  ROTFLMBO
The right to protest is fundamentally American. Obviously, everyone will not agree on this subject or there'd be no need to "Occupy".

Mike
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 09:35:23 AM by MKW »

Offline augiedog55

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Re: Occupy Wall Street, etc...
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2011, 10:05:25 AM »
You stated that why would people pay 5$ a gallon for gas that come from texas as compared 3$ gallon gas that comes from Egypt> Where do you come up with those stats. Post a link on that. One great advantage would also be no diruptions due to political and civil unrest in the middle east. You also won't have the shippiing cost from there to here. So I don't by your cheap egyption oil  theory.
 Drilling in this country would be a great thing for our UE workers. American drillers and american refiners.. Its a win win situation.  Workers pay taxes ...
 Have you seen what going on in ND right now. They have 3.5 % UE and looking for 18,000 more people to fill jobs.mmm  Most of that has to do with energy. Oil is booming plus the coal industry.. Why can't we do this in the rest of our country. Because those liberal EPA a holes don';t want it.

wiltznucs

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Re: Occupy Wall Street, etc...
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2011, 10:15:48 AM »
You stated that why would people pay 5$ a gallon for gas that come from texas as compared 3$ gallon gas that comes from Egypt> Where do you come up with those stats. Post a link on that. One great advantage would also be no diruptions due to political and civil unrest in the middle east. You also won't have the shippiing cost from there to here. So I don't by your cheap egyption oil  theory.
 Drilling in this country would be a great thing for our UE workers. American drillers and american refiners.. Its a win win situation.  Workers pay taxes ...
 Have you seen what going on in ND right now. They have 3.5 % UE and looking for 18,000 more people to fill jobs.mmm  Most of that has to do with energy. Oil is booming plus the coal industry.. Why can't we do this in the rest of our country. Because those liberal EPA a holes don';t want it.

The Egypt proposal is simply hypothetical to prove a point.  The point being that all things being the same, its wiser to pay less for an item than more.

Drilling in this country is great? Its certainly nowhere close to a win-win.  ND is a bright spot, but I don't think the 18,000 jobs they have created will do much to correct the 14 million unemployed Americans.   I'll disagree and remind you of the BP disaster only one year ago. I'll also remind you that oil is a finite resource that wont be around forever.  

You should read up on the Peak Oil theory, also read up on the Standard Oil Company and its breakup many years ago.  You'll learn that the oil industry is nothing more than a thinly veiled monopoly and that the cost of producing oil is getting so high that the economic/environmental ramifications are terrifying.

You bash the EPA guys; however, America is conspicuously absent from global pollution agreements.  I'd argue that the EPA/U.S. isnt doing as much as we should.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 10:28:46 AM by wiltznucs »