What do you think of this?

[M Sharpe]

You have a batch of calls in a competition, one has a third place ribbon already on it. The judges can't make up their minds between two calls for first place. So they get someone else to stop by and run the calls to break the tie. After this individual plays the calls, he makes his dicision. But, he takes it one step farther. He places the third place call second and the one that was in the run-off for first is now the third place call.

Here's the way I see it. If a group of men can't decide between two calls, maybe they don't need to be judging. Why do they have to get an outside opinion? What is someone that has been called in to break a tie doing even playing the third place call anyway? Kinda makes you wonder about the whole thing don't it?

[Shadowturkeycaller]

Wow,

Thats wrong anyway you look at it!

[HelsbysCustomCalls]

Not surprising unfortunately

[Bulldogmikey]

Mark, I have heard of similuar and even worse happenings at the shows during judging!

Mike

[M Sharpe]

This happened at the show in Raleigh this weekend. Needless to say the guy this happened to is PO'd.

[Bulldogmikey]

This happened at the show in Raleigh this weekend. Needless to say the guy this happened to is PO'd.

I bet he is. That is a big deal for those call makers. It is just not right!

Mike

[letinmfly]

Wow,

Thats wrong anyway you look at it!

Can we say BULL  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[SS Custom Calls]

Wow,

Thats wrong anyway you look at it!

Can we say BULL  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 Bout sums it up. 

[Dragonfly]

I never liked how judges are picked anyways for the call events anyways.  I think they should all be certified somehow and have to go through some sort of qualification class.  Or have someone like me do the judging...right Frank C?

[wiltznucs]

The NWTF does the best it can.  I judged a few times and took a break from it.  Between the bickering of the call makers and the "qualify the judges" crowd its just not worth the headaches.  Being a judge is a terrible position to be in as you cannot please everyone and you find yourself losing friends over doing what you volunteered to do.  

The bottom line is this, there is not now nor will there ever be a method to judge calls which is truly quantitative.  Meaning there is no standardized tool, guide, or system to judge a calls sound.  In the absence of a quantitative measure the contest will always be qualitative and conducted by humans.  Humans which have a different expectation, different skills, and are inherently subjective.

The NWTF contest has no real value in my opinion anyway.  Theres a trend now where previous winners no longer compete and so we dont find the "best of the best" instead we really find the "best of the rest".  The unfortunate truth is that to some degree the NWTF Nats has become the Special Olympics of call making.  Apparently some folks want it that way too, where eventually everyone will get a ribbon..

There absolutely no sense losing sleep over the Nats or any other contest.  In the words of Ecclesiastes, "its all meaningless" anyway...

[M Sharpe]

So if we have to have someone else step in and pick a winning call, how does that make all of their other decisions look? Like  . It's not about pleasing the crowds. I have judged many calling contest and I'm sure I've disappointed some people. But, I made a decision and stuck with it. You ask a bunch of people to volunteer, if they don't feel comfortable, then decline. But you, never,never ask someone else who is not listed as a judge to break a tie. Period.

Since I'm not a callmaker, I could care less if they ever had another one either.

[wiltznucs]

I dont disagree with your assessment of the situation you described and something seems a bit fishy about it.  To be sure, particularly in friction and trumpet calls the difference between 1st and 5th is typically splitting hairs.  I recall only a handful of occasions where a consensus winner was chosen by the judges.  Tie breakers and soliciting anothers opinion isnt uncommon and can actually be the most fair/objective way to make a final decision.

[trb136]

What Category???

[jmck]

in shock---
how can the make up of the placed calls be jumbled when trying to determine the 1st and 2nd place calls only.
This event seems to involve me I am sad to say---I pm'd M.Sharp the minute I read his post because I had some calls in this competation. He informed me that it involved the Longbox category. I am sure he didnt mention that due to me I guess---I thank you if you not mentioning the division as to not draw out names....... but it needs to be told, even if it involves me!!!
For a tiebreaker ....it should have only been a decesion of the 1st and 2nd place call---not a change in the order the judges had already chose.
This benefitted me but I want my voice heard here.....I feel that this is totally worng if the facts as we read them in this post are correct.
Right is right man, and Russell---if the facts are right as we read them here....I am sorry this has happened man.
Russell---I am excited about my luck there, but more so than my excitement for that---I feel for you man......if this is correct----what was allowed was totally wrong !!!!!

[Zumer]

If the third place call was already decided, why was an outsider making the change in the order of finish???

      Why did he or she even have to play the third placed call.......??

     Why did the panel of judges ALLOW this person to over ride the other judges, when he/she wasn't even a judge to begin with?

       3 serious questions, that need answered.....

     Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm, somethings very very wrong with that senerio.....