Author Topic: Pre-season calling!!!???  (Read 3188 times)

Dcoleinpa

  • Guest
Pre-season calling!!!???
« on: February 24, 2011, 10:59:15 AM »
We see this every year on forums just like I just saw it on one. I don't do it, I did when I was a kid as I didn't know any better. One of the best pieces of advice I got was
" go into the woods, sit down and listen". If you can't go in the woods without yelping you have issues ROTFLMBO ;D. Self control.

Offline Bulldogmikey

  • Boss Tom
  • *****
  • Posts: 8275
  • R.I.P. from the Osage Roost Family
    • m2calls
Re: Pre-season calling!!!???
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2011, 11:01:52 AM »
Never took a call in the woods when scouting!

Mike
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Offline AlanKrow

  • Boss Tom
  • *****
  • Posts: 4168
Re: Pre-season calling!!!???
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2011, 11:55:06 AM »
Never took a call in the woods when scouting!

Mike *up* *up* *up* *up* *up* *up*

Offline Zumer

  • Boss Tom
  • *****
  • Posts: 2736
  • The Mod that banned Porter
Re: Pre-season calling!!!???
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2011, 01:04:02 PM »
Dylan,

           PA is notorious for guys going into the woods pre-season scouting and calling to birds....It wouldn't be quite so bad, if they didn't booger them up by scaring them about everytime, they go out....

           Good Lord gave ya ONE mouth and TWO ears for a reason.......It's very hard to hear, when your running your yapper.... RkLu
  Prostaff member of the Wife's Honey-Do list...

Offline Ryan T

  • Jake
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
Re: Pre-season calling!!!???
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2011, 02:08:51 PM »
We see this every year on forums just like I just saw it on one. I don't do it, I did when I was a kid as I didn't know any better. One of the best pieces of advice I got was
" go into the woods, sit down and listen". If you can't go in the woods without yelping you have issues ROTFLMBO ;D. Self control.

I can go without yelping, but I can't without gobbling.  I want them to know that there ain't but one BOSS TOM, in my area!  8) 8) 8)

gonhuntin

  • Guest
Re: Pre-season calling!!!???
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2011, 02:36:56 PM »
I don't carry a call when scouting. No temptation.

Offline drabndouble

  • Boss Hen
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
Re: Pre-season calling!!!???
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2011, 03:50:28 PM »
Guilty! But that was quite a while ago now . A wise old lawyer from Louisiana scolded me a good one on another forum ,,,My eyes were opened to his wisdom . I hold a lot of respect for him too.

 But on the other hand ,,,I call most every day ,,in the truck ,,at work ,,in the livin' room ,,,yard ,,garage ,,stores ,,,not in the woods .

Offline Porter

  • Osage Polish Mike
  • Administrator
  • Boss Tom
  • **********
  • Posts: 8402
  • Osage Polish Mike
    • Osage Roost
Re: Pre-season calling!!!???
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2011, 08:23:44 AM »
I only do it on public land that doesn't allow hunting.  Never do it around my hunting areas.  I'll take a crow call, but never gobbled either.

Generally, I just go and sit and observe.  I'll look for sign and try to find some good roosting and strutting areas.


Offline PA Boxcall

  • Boss Tom
  • *****
  • Posts: 850
  • That's this about that.
Re: Pre-season calling!!!???
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2011, 10:21:15 AM »
Zumer eluded to the problem; its spooking the birds that makes them associate a bad experience with the calling.

Turkeys hear other turkeys calling all day long, they hear other turkeys making soft sounds, loud sounds, alarming sounds, mating sounds, etc.  And I do not believe turkeys have the cognitive ability to listen to a string of yelps coming from another ridge top and discern that the origin isn't a turkey, but a predator that has itself learned to accurately mimic its own vocalizations as a form of deception.

I am also not saying that preseason calling is OK, because birds will react to any kind of new pressure in their home ranges.  Yet I always arrive at the following conclusion when I read these threads...

In Pennsylvania, we have a couple hundred thousand spring hunters, many of which hit the public ground we are fortunate enough to have here in PA.  I wrote last year to a forum member here about opening day last spring as "valet parking at the state forest gates," and "other gates it was take a number and wait your turn to walk out the ridge top."

That kind of pressure affects the birds in a major way; all those hunters yawking on every calling device in their vests, much of that calling too loud and out of context.  All those hunters pushing the birds around from one hollow to the next, bumping them off the roost, etc.   Birds move off and then settle again, because birds are bumped by all sorts of predators all year long, and have learned to quickly settle down and get back to going about their day.

Yet the very next morning after the opening day onslaught of "calling" and bmping, gobblers are sitting on their roost branches at dawn gobbling their heads off, flying down and going to hens calling nearby.  If preseason calling was as detrimental as some claim it to be, not a bird would be successfully called up on the second day of Pennsylvania's season and harvested.  Conversely, I have had turkeys gobble at my call within a few hundred yards of the most crowded gates on our public ground, where three or four trucks are already parked. 

The most dramatic form of "preseason calling" actually happens on opening day, call it "season calling," if you will.  It takes the minor pressure of a truck stopping along a pull-off, a guy getting out and hitting a box call to an entirely different level of roost bumping, spooking on the ground, flushing off ridges, etc.  Yet birds are still respond to calling the very next day -- sometimes within a few minutes of the flushing event.  How often do we hear of stories of guys calling a gobbler, shooting and missing, and calling that bird right back in.  Or breakig up a flock in the fall with a gun blast, waiting ten minutes and calling the flock right back to the bust site.

Back to Zumer's point, if a guy sits in the weeks leading up to the opener sitting in the woods, calling up gobblers and then causing them to spook, a turkey does have the ability to learn from that unpleasant experience.  But to state as a conclusion preseason calling is some kind of irreverislbe, damaging act that should be avoided at all costs, well I dont think turkey behavior bears that to be fact.  If they were that paranoid after a single experience, no two turkeys would ever trust each other enought ot be successful at getting together and reproducing.
"Sit down wrong, and you're beat."  Jim Spencer

Offline Bulldogmikey

  • Boss Tom
  • *****
  • Posts: 8275
  • R.I.P. from the Osage Roost Family
    • m2calls
Re: Pre-season calling!!!???
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2011, 10:57:04 AM »
Zumer eluded to the problem; its spooking the birds that makes them associate a bad experience with the calling.

Turkeys hear other turkeys calling all day long, they hear other turkeys making soft sounds, loud sounds, alarming sounds, mating sounds, etc.  And I do not believe turkeys have the cognitive ability to listen to a string of yelps coming from another ridge top and discern that the origin isn't a turkey, but a predator that has itself learned to accurately mimic its own vocalizations as a form of deception.

I am also not saying that preseason calling is OK, because birds will react to any kind of new pressure in their home ranges.  Yet I always arrive at the following conclusion when I read these threads...

In Pennsylvania, we have a couple hundred thousand spring hunters, many of which hit the public ground we are fortunate enough to have here in PA.  I wrote last year to a forum member here about opening day last spring as "valet parking at the state forest gates," and "other gates it was take a number and wait your turn to walk out the ridge top."

That kind of pressure affects the birds in a major way; all those hunters yawking on every calling device in their vests, much of that calling too loud and out of context.  All those hunters pushing the birds around from one hollow to the next, bumping them off the roost, etc.   Birds move off and then settle again, because birds are bumped by all sorts of predators all year long, and have learned to quickly settle down and get back to going about their day.

Yet the very next morning after the opening day onslaught of "calling" and bmping, gobblers are sitting on their roost branches at dawn gobbling their heads off, flying down and going to hens calling nearby.  If preseason calling was as detrimental as some claim it to be, not a bird would be successfully called up on the second day of Pennsylvania's season and harvested.  Conversely, I have had turkeys gobble at my call within a few hundred yards of the most crowded gates on our public ground, where three or four trucks are already parked. 

The most dramatic form of "preseason calling" actually happens on opening day, call it "season calling," if you will.  It takes the minor pressure of a truck stopping along a pull-off, a guy getting out and hitting a box call to an entirely different level of roost bumping, spooking on the ground, flushing off ridges, etc.  Yet birds are still respond to calling the very next day -- sometimes within a few minutes of the flushing event.  How often do we hear of stories of guys calling a gobbler, shooting and missing, and calling that bird right back in.  Or breakig up a flock in the fall with a gun blast, waiting ten minutes and calling the flock right back to the bust site.

Back to Zumer's point, if a guy sits in the weeks leading up to the opener sitting in the woods, calling up gobblers and then causing them to spook, a turkey does have the ability to learn from that unpleasant experience.  But to state as a conclusion preseason calling is some kind of irreverislbe, damaging act that should be avoided at all costs, well I dont think turkey behavior bears that to be fact.  If they were that paranoid after a single experience, no two turkeys would ever trust each other enought ot be successful at getting together and reproducing.


Very good responce. This is where we get "different strokes for different folks". I was simply taught to "scout" without a call before the season. Birds were not as plentiful. So just locating a flock and especially the roosting area if not tree, was a major deal. I can remember going for days without seeing a sign. Once located the last thing we wanted was to spook them. My uncle was a GREAT Turkey hunter. If he said it, I took it for rock solid fact. That is simply why I never did it. If I could hunt the area I live in now with the number of birds, who knows, I might change. But old habits are hard to break, especially when they work.

Mike
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

hunter22

  • Guest
Re: Pre-season calling!!!???
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2011, 11:44:04 AM »
I guess I see no reason to call a bird in before season other than to just see if you can. I agree it is fun to have them gobbling and strutting in front of you but why not wait a few more days or weeks and do it whenever it really counts. If you are a photographer and not a hunter then it really does not matter when you call.

Last year before season I was scouting and heard a bird gobbling on the roost before light. I slipped in within 75 yds and sat down behind some brush. I got to hear a lot of soft tree stuff and booming gobbles that morning. When the hens flew down they landed within 40 yds of me. The gobbler dropped down out of his tree and I heard him drumming for a good 5 minutes before he came strutting out of the woods. I watched him go from hen to hen for several minutes before they fed off. I saw all of this and did not have a call with me. 

Offline Zumer

  • Boss Tom
  • *****
  • Posts: 2736
  • The Mod that banned Porter
Re: Pre-season calling!!!???
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2011, 11:52:02 AM »
Zumer eluded to the problem; its spooking the birds that makes them associate a bad experience with the calling.

Turkeys hear other turkeys calling all day long, they hear other turkeys making soft sounds, loud sounds, alarming sounds, mating sounds, etc.  And I do not believe turkeys have the cognitive ability to listen to a string of yelps coming from another ridge top and discern that the origin isn't a turkey, but a predator that has itself learned to accurately mimic its own vocalizations as a form of deception.

I am also not saying that preseason calling is OK, because birds will react to any kind of new pressure in their home ranges.  Yet I always arrive at the following conclusion when I read these threads...

In Pennsylvania, we have a couple hundred thousand spring hunters, many of which hit the public ground we are fortunate enough to have here in PA.  I wrote last year to a forum member here about opening day last spring as "valet parking at the state forest gates," and "other gates it was take a number and wait your turn to walk out the ridge top."

That kind of pressure affects the birds in a major way; all those hunters yawking on every calling device in their vests, much of that calling too loud and out of context.  All those hunters pushing the birds around from one hollow to the next, bumping them off the roost, etc.   Birds move off and then settle again, because birds are bumped by all sorts of predators all year long, and have learned to quickly settle down and get back to going about their day.

Yet the very next morning after the opening day onslaught of "calling" and bmping, gobblers are sitting on their roost branches at dawn gobbling their heads off, flying down and going to hens calling nearby.  If preseason calling was as detrimental as some claim it to be, not a bird would be successfully called up on the second day of Pennsylvania's season and harvested.  Conversely, I have had turkeys gobble at my call within a few hundred yards of the most crowded gates on our public ground, where three or four trucks are already parked. 

The most dramatic form of "preseason calling" actually happens on opening day, call it "season calling," if you will.  It takes the minor pressure of a truck stopping along a pull-off, a guy getting out and hitting a box call to an entirely different level of roost bumping, spooking on the ground, flushing off ridges, etc.  Yet birds are still respond to calling the very next day -- sometimes within a few minutes of the flushing event.  How often do we hear of stories of guys calling a gobbler, shooting and missing, and calling that bird right back in.  Or breakig up a flock in the fall with a gun blast, waiting ten minutes and calling the flock right back to the bust site.

Back to Zumer's point, if a guy sits in the weeks leading up to the opener sitting in the woods, calling up gobblers and then causing them to spook, a turkey does have the ability to learn from that unpleasant experience.  But to state as a conclusion preseason calling is some kind of irreverislbe, damaging act that should be avoided at all costs, well I dont think turkey behavior bears that to be fact.  If they were that paranoid after a single experience, no two turkeys would ever trust each other enought ot be successful at getting together and reproducing.



Nice article, John.....Allot of solid points well made....


    My thought process tells me, that when it's time for calling, your guns should be part of the end result of the program...Not watching a gobbler flush from being buggered.....

    I spend allot of early mornings sitting on a mountain top listening to the gobbler making their presence known...They are in the same roost trees as last year using the very same travel corridors and strut zones....WHY would I need to call to them before it's time to do so??????????  JMHO...

       Zumer

   
  Prostaff member of the Wife's Honey-Do list...

Offline PA Boxcall

  • Boss Tom
  • *****
  • Posts: 850
  • That's this about that.
Re: Pre-season calling!!!???
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2011, 01:00:38 PM »
If you have birds that are pretty habitual in their spring roost sites year to year, there is no reason.  I agree 100%.  To do otherwise is senseless, or as said "just because you can."

If you hunt large tracts of public timber, several hundred thousand acres like I do, where mast crops change year to year, listening quietly from a pull off on the road may not produce results for the few days you get to spend in the area before opening day.  Hunter22 is lucky to have heard that first gobble with all those hens around -- clearly no reason for that bird to even have gobbled once if what he wants already surrounds him in the tree...that situation has the making of a quiet morning, all henned up like that.

And if sitting quietly does produce, smart money is on the odds that you and everyone else who stopped to listen at the pull off area also knows about those birds...

So getting back in and being a little agressive locating may be the only option you have to develop a plan of attack for opening day and the days afterward.

To be clear, I'm not condoning walking trails running a box call all morning -- that's trolling.  Save it for opening day.  My point is the preseason calling has no long term lasting effect on birds like many think it may.  Turkeys hear turkey talk all day, every day 365 days a year. They can't think to themselves when they hear yelping on the next ridge...'ut-oh, a hunter'...that's all. 
"Sit down wrong, and you're beat."  Jim Spencer

Offline PA Boxcall

  • Boss Tom
  • *****
  • Posts: 850
  • That's this about that.
Re: Pre-season calling!!!???
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2011, 01:09:00 PM »
There may be a little confusion here too -- using a call preseason to locate, and preseason calling to bring a bird in close for a show.

I do not agree with the latter -- save the up-close show and experience for the gun, for sure.

But I'm not opposed to using a string of yelps or a cutt as a means of locating ridges that hold birds if the morning was quiet...more like 'long-distance locating.' 

 :)
"Sit down wrong, and you're beat."  Jim Spencer

Offline GR8CALLS

  • Boss Tom
  • *****
  • Posts: 4164
Re: Pre-season calling!!!???
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2011, 01:39:00 PM »
 Truth be known, scouting has its' problems also.......as much as we like to think we are being stealthy, scouting in an area you paln to hunt a week or two before the season opens, isn't something I do. Turkeys see far better than we do and believe me when you enter their domain, chances are they see you before you see them. I trust my abilities to call and will save scouting and calling for my hunt.

Bill
I'm not shy.......I'm just studying my prey!!!

The True Measure of A Man Will be Found in His Words and Deeds!

If The Enemy is in Range......So Are You!