Author Topic: Load for cylinder bored, vitage percussion shot gun  (Read 2666 times)

Offline Old Geezer

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Load for cylinder bored, vitage percussion shot gun
« on: April 19, 2010, 09:45:55 AM »
Heres' one I came up with using shot cups, flitecontrol tecnology and 1 1/4 oz of #7 nickel plated shot.  The load has enough energy to do the job at the 25 yards that this load was patterned.  Testing now for consistency.

Ralph

Prov 27:1 (You never know what's coming at you)

Offline charlieparrish

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Re: Load for cylinder bored, vitage percussion shot gun
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2010, 09:43:21 AM »
Thats a good pattern for that ol front stuffer... what powder charge are you using? I've got an old double ML that is about a 25 yrd gun, max. using #6 and 85 grains of double f.. but I really enjoy hunting with it, I can close my eyes and visualize being back in time a hundred plus years..makes me young again.

spur, those White Tominators are awsome guns..but I just can't reconcile myself to modern inlines
Charlie

Offline Blackfalcon

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Re: Load for cylinder bored, vitage percussion shot gun
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2010, 08:06:42 PM »
Here is something that might interest some of the Old Timers and front loaders on here  ;D

  Working up turkey loads for optimum pattern density.

In reading about recommendations for loading shot in smoothbores, we often come across references to the use of fiber wads, felt wads and heavy over-powder cards.  Far be it from us to pretend that we know it all when it comes to shooting shot loads. However, it seems to be clear and reasonable when you stop and consider this; if the component over the powder is heavier than any individual shot pellet, it is very possible that the heavy component will overtake the shot charge after it leaves the muzzle and hit it. This quite often results in splotchy patterns or donut hole patterns. Sound familiar? If you've suffered this occurrence, here is a loading tip that might help put a longbeard on the table. This pertains to cylinder bore guns, but can be used in choked guns also. We recommend using  only over-shot cards on the POWDER charge, if you want a tight pattern . The reason is that the light cards, say 3 or 4, seal the gases upon ignition and as they exit the muzzle, being light, they don't follow the charge and disturb it. They tend to go to the sides and leave the charge flying straight. If you desire a tight pattern for turkeys, purchase either nickel-plated, copper-plated, bismuth or any other HARD shot (not steel) of your choice. The reason for hard shot is this. If a round pellet stays round, it will fly straight. And by extension, 500 round pellets will fly straight if they stay round. When they get flattened or mis-shaped by the crush of the powder igniting, they will not fly straight and you will get many flyers. Bismuth may be the best because it is almost as dense and heavy as lead shot and almost as hard as steel. So it has the penetration of lead, but stays round for true flight to the target.

The suggested loading procedure for maximum pattern density is this;

Using your shot dipper as a powder measure, pour down a set amount ( example; 1 1/8 oz of volume for a 20 ga.),  then seat 3-4 overshot cards on the powder to pack it and push out any air. Then take a single overshot card and push it down the bore approx. 3 inches. Now, take that same volume of shot, as used for the powder measuring, and drop it down onto the card where it will be visible. Then take a dipper full of cornmeal  muffin mix ( not straight corn meal) and drop onto the shot. Tap the side of the barrel ( keep head and eyes from in front of muzzle!) until the shot works it's way to the top and the cornmeal has worked down into the shot charge. This will provide a buffering element so that when the powder ignites, the shot will push against the meal not the other shot pellets. Then place one overshot card on the shot load and seat it on the powder. The reason to use the muffin mix and not the straight corn meal is that there are sugars and fats added to the mixture that aren't present in the straight corn meal. Apparently, these pack somewhat and allow the charge to be bunched up for short distance from the muzzle, helping to give you a great pattern. We recommend using no. 7 or 7 1/2 size shot for turkeys for the pattern density. These size pellets will penetrate a gobbler's skull at 26-28 yards which is about as far as one should shoot at a turkey with a cylinder bore gun anyway. If this load does not give you a good pattern, try using one less increment of powder as thrown by your shot charger, so that you are using just a little more shot . If you are using choked guns, you can go to the bigger shot sizes. By all means experiment with your gun to see which loads pattern best for THAT PARTICULAR GUN. Sometimes, a gun will throw a better pattern when LESS shot and powder are used. And by using the corn muffin mix when you shoot a turkey, the bird is already smoked and breaded and ready for the frying pan when you pick it up.

        GOOD HUNTING AND BE SAFE!  
« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 08:08:07 PM by Blackfalcon »

Offline Old Geezer

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Re: Load for cylinder bored, vitage percussion shot gun
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2010, 08:31:18 PM »
What I finally settled on for a good load in my vitage muzzleloader is, 1 1/4 oz, #7 nickel plated shot with equal volume of 2F blackpowder or 85 grains.  Both barrels in my percussion gun I shoot are cylinder bored 12 ga .730 twist steel barrels.  On top of the powder goes an 1/8 over powder card, a 1/2 cushion wad.  A Ballistics Products BP12 shot cup, cut down to hold the 1 1/4oz of shot, and having four 5/8" slits, is dropped in the barrel and then shot poured in.  An over shot card cut from an egg crate, with an old choke tube goes last.

The componets all have their purpose and work together to make a good killing pattern at 25yds max. Over powder wad acts as a gas seal.  The cushion wad helps to seal gases too but also keeps the fire from melting the plastic shot cup.  BP12 cups are low friction cups due to the 16 or so raised ribs on their exterior.  You have to custom cut them to suit your needs.  I still want to experiment with modifying the cups.  You know you have gone to far when the cup does not separate from the shot in flight.  My patterns are 26" wide at 25 yds. and when you are sighting down a plain rib of an old gun that is about right to get the job done.  I have missed birds because tight patterns at that range.  Most all my shots are in the 20 -30 yard range or even closer.

Vintage SxS guns are really versitile.  You can load a plain lead ball with over shot card or patched ball and all sizes and types of buckshot a bird shot. The most important part of loading is consistency there are so many variables in the loading process.  I posted my PA gobbler down in the skinning shack section if any one is interested in reading more.

Ralph


Prov 27:1 (You never know what's coming at you)

Offline Blackfalcon

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Re: Load for cylinder bored, vitage percussion shot gun
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2010, 04:43:46 AM »
Looks like a very effective load Ralph, you inspired me to get out my old black powder double for sure!
Lately I have been looking into building my own fowler, similar to the one shown here, http://www.caywoodguns.com/12_ga.htm  (the info I posted was from this gun builders site) I really enjoy calling in turkeys with calls I've made and it appeals to me to finish the job with a gun I built myself.
We don't have a section here for black powder turkey guns, your post Ralph was one of the few I've happened across concerning black powder loads and patterns. At a fairly young age, I acquired an old hammer gun with damascus barrels,a missing firing pin was fashioned by a machinist neighbor. She was then loaded and test fired (strapped down to an old tire and fired with a cord  ;D) to make sure she was sound.
Many pleasurable hours were spent in the field pursuing rabbits and all other types of game with that old gun....

Offline Old Geezer

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Re: Load for cylinder bored, vitage percussion shot gun
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2010, 05:35:40 AM »
I had talked with many blackpowder shooters and they all had different advice on how to load so I took what they had to say a used what works for me.  We have some great resources in our area to learn about flintlocks and percussion guns.  Check out dixonmuzzleloading.com,  they have a blackpower fair the end of July.  Three days of demonstrations and seminars on vintage gun making.   Other resources are Jacobsburgs Guns. and the Dixie Gun catalog.  Dwain Bland in his "Turkey Hunters' Digest" gives some realistic thoughts on hunting with an old muzzleloader; wait until the bird is within 25 yds, dead is dead - don't worry if you get some shot in the body and you never know when you might need that second barrel.

I bought a 12 ga flex hone and will see if that improved patterns further.

Ralph
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 12:35:09 PM by Old Geezer »
Prov 27:1 (You never know what's coming at you)

Offline Old Geezer

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Re: Load for cylinder bored, vitage percussion shot gun
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 08:03:21 PM »
Shot the old gun today.  Honing did not improve the patterns,  but to my surprise it did cut my barrel cleaning time in half.  Since conditioning the interiors, they don't hold the black powder residue as before.

Ralph
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 08:04:09 PM by Old Geezer »
Prov 27:1 (You never know what's coming at you)

Offline drabndouble

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Re: Load for cylinder bored, vitage percussion shot gun
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2010, 03:18:29 PM »
I appreciate all the info fellers . I do not own a ML shotgun ,,,YET,,, but I do have a rifle and revolver . It was interesting to see the bit about the corn muffin mix . I began using regular cornmeal between powder and ball in my revolvers back in the early '90s . Keeping that ball near to the chamber mouth makes lousy shooter into a tack driver .
Thanks