Using dogs for turkey hunting

[L-Wes]

I can't get real excited about hunting turkeys with dogs....despite having bagged a few fall birds with the help of dogs:  My all-purpose lab was probably what some would call a "good turkey dog", but I'm not sure there is any such thing.  She was responsible for a few fall birds.  Other fall birds were bagged with the help of a German shepherd and a mutt.   I think any dog can be trained to hunt turkeys.   A flock of turkeys gives off a strong smell...any dog that can't smell them is probably dead.  Following the scent and busting the flock is rather normal dog behavior, regardless of breed or training.  The real trick is to get the buster dog to lie quietly and motionless while the hunter tries to call the birds back together.  The majority of dogs can be trained to do this. 

I would have to agree with one comment already made here:  A dog may provide an advantage to older hunters who are neither interested nor capable of sprinting into a flock of turkeys to bust 'em up.....Let the dog do it!

[Mzlhunter]

I'd have to strongly disagree with you. Although a dog is not a substitute for good woodsmanship and scouting they  do offer an advantage. True, a lot of dogs can be trained to bust turkeys but I think there is a big difference in what some consider a "good" turkey dog and the ones that in one way or another have been bred for the purpose. In my opinion a turkey dog should range but check back often, bark on the break, and be able to remain motionless during the call back. If they don't posses these qualities then I could see how one might think that hunting with a dog doesnt offer many advantages.  I think if you hunted with one of the guys who is
really into turkey dogging and had good dogs you'd get into it.   

[L-Wes]

Not sure just how you disagree with me.  We said nearly the same thing.   For the record:  I would choose NOT to hunt with whomever and his turkey dog.

[drabndouble]

Not sure just how you disagree with me.  We said nearly the same thing.   For the record:  I would choose NOT to hunt with whomever and his turkey dog.

  Could I twist your arm a little  ?  How do YOU hunt fall turkeys ? Don't misunderstand my reason for asking . I'm just curious .

[L-Wes]

My favorite approach:   Set up between roost and food source.....When they fly down and I hear 'em talking, I try to lure them my way:  Kee Kee Run with a mouth call and hen assembly yelps with a box.   Works for me!

If I encounter a flock without spooking them, I sit down and do the same thing:  Try to lure the young of the flock in my direction....dragging any oldsters (They usually really compete with me by trying to out yelp me.) along, too.

I must admit to not being an avid fall turkey hunter.

[wisturkeyhunter]

   I think any dog can be trained to hunt turkeys.   A flock of turkeys gives off a strong smell...any dog that can't smell them is probably dead.  Following the scent and busting the flock is rather normal dog behavior, regardless of breed or training.  The real trick is to get the buster dog to lie quietly and motionless while the hunter tries to call the birds back together.  The majority of dogs can be trained to do this. 

You can't train a dog to hunt.

[L-Wes]

Your opinion.....not fact!

[wisturkeyhunter]

Alot of guys with less than good turkey dogs that would love for you to explain how to train them to hunt.
Lets hear it.

How do you train a dog to track turkey scent that doesn't have the instinct to do so?
How do you train a dog to sit still that is to hyper to do so?
How do you train a dog to bark that doesn't have the bark already in it?
How do you train prey drive into a dog?
How do you train a dog to range out and cover lots of ground when they are 30 yard dogs?

I'm dying to know?

[L-Wes]

Interesting questions...better answered by a pro, perhaps, but here goes:

#1.  Scent training of a dog is relatively simple.  For a detailed answer, I suggest you ask someone who has trained dogs to find explosives or drugs...no instinct there.  Or, talk to someone who trained a dog using breaking scent to discourage hunting unwanted game.

#2.  Training "Down...Stay" is part of nearly every dog training regimen.  Are there some that cannot learn to do so?  Probably.

#3.  Not sure what you are suggesting here:  Can I (or anyone) train a voiceless dog to bark?  Probably not.  (For the record:  I trained a lab to bark while trailing rabbits.  It was easy.)

#4.  My guess is that what you call "prey drive" is born into every dog (all canines);  Those without it will die.

#5.  Whoo Boy!....This is just the opposite of the question asked by many hunters!  Dogs normally will range as far as necessary to find game.  It is getting them to hunt close that is usually the problem.

I suspect your questions were asked in defense of turkey dogs.  No such defense was necessary:  Turkey dogs are turkey dogs.  I just don't see them as anything special.  We differ in opinion....makes the world and this forum interesting.  You can pick up your glove now!   

[wisturkeyhunter]

Bout what I figured. You've not a clue about training dogs your just assuming what they are capable of being trained to do.

1: How many of them drug dogs make the grade. I seriously doubt every dog is cut out for it. Training is important but you can't train a dud to track scent. Finding drugs is much different then learning to track game but I'm sure you know this.

2: Teaching a dog to stay or lay down in easy for sure. Most dogs should be able to be taught that. It staying there when the pressure is on. What about the dog who is so hyper because its how the breed has been bred for several generations that when they see a bird they come unglued? It happens. Read Mike Tice's post on here where he says his shorthair wouldn't make a good turkey dog for that reason. I'm sure Mike knows what his dogs are capable of.

3: Is a turkey dog a great turkey dog if it doesn't bark on the flush? For the guy who wants his dog to perform to a high level I say no.

4: Sorry but That is some stupid chit. Alot of sporting breed dogs out there that the prey drive had been bred out by the show people. Finding a clean toilet to drink out of and knowing when the food bowl has been filled isn't prey drive.

5: "It is getting them to hunt close that is usually the problem" That is simply not true. Plenty of dogs that range much to close to be effective dogs be it turkey dogs or pointing dogs in the uplands. Don't tell me your the kinda guy that would go pheasant hunting and tell me my pointing dog is to far out at 150 yards?

This post is not in defense of turkey dogs in the least. I'm just pointing out how goofy it is to say any dog can make a hunting dog. Some dogs have it some dogs don't. Good breeding helps, but good hunting dogs sometimes come from unlikely places.

[L-Wes]

It would appear that a) You think you know everything, or b) You wish to argue, just for the sake of arguing, or c) both.  Whatever I shall pass on future discourse with you.  At first, you were good for a laugh, but that has worn off.

Adios,
L-Wes

[wisturkeyhunter]

Can people not debate without accusing the other person of being a no it all or arguementative(pretty sure that spelled wrong so don't bother).

Anyways you appear to know next to nothing to anyone that does know something.

Good Bye,
Adam

[L-Wes]

Last comment:   I really feel sorry for you!   You seem to need to denigrate others in some dumbheaded attempt to build up yourself.   Please see a qualified counselor ASAP!

You may be SMALL, but you are not totally insignificant....well, not quite!  Be nice to others, and they will be nice to you!

[doublebeard]

 Now that's funny!!! You're accusing Adam of knowing everything and liking to argue? Pot, Kettle?    I smell Troll!

[wisturkeyhunter]

I was simply trying to get you to back up this comment by asking a few questions that somebody with all the answers should be able to answer but you failed. Maybe you don't have all the answers of training any dog to do what you want it to do?
"Following the scent and busting the flock is rather normal dog behavior, regardless of breed or training."