Osage Roost
General Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: fargobox on September 07, 2011, 10:29:09 AM
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Another Neil Cost, DD Adams or a Henry Gibson for example??? Is there one out there now in the making, perhaps one of our own, maybe even the author of this post ROTFLMBO...growing his knowledge, expanding his work, teaching the craft, volunteering his time, supporting the industry, exploring/pushing the limits of the envelope, challenging himself and the industry, looking ahead with R&D of call-making, taking copius notes on his work, his trials, errors and successes???
Should, or could there be another Neil Cost?
Another perspective....I play golf and I am a golf course architect so naturally I have been amazed at the skills of a person like Tiger Woods who virtually changed the industry...such as the way Jack Nicklaus did years ago, so with that in mind, do we even need another Neil Cost, or did his work and the work of other great legends establish all we need to carry forward for success and viability of our craft.
So tell us, what do you think???
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Hmmm, That is a great question. No I don't think these gentlemen will be surpassed. But ya never know. I build calls for one simple reason. To keep myself busy during the off season. Turns the year into one long season. Time will tell!!!!!
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In my way of looking at it, I say no. People like Tiger didn't revolutionize some new product that took golf and made it what it is. Michael Jordan as well with basketball, these are people with outstanding talent for playing a game better than any other. They haven't produced any product. The Wright Bros for example made something that no one else was capable of doing and spawned a few great aviators in the process. Now you would struggle to name all the plane manufacturers in the world. You could also compare Henry Ford, how many cars company's have revolutionized anything lately? Just my opinion........ You know what they say about opinions *poo*
Dave
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Dave, you're right about Tiger and the others IMO and opinions is what this is all about. I hope my thoughts bring on a good discussion. I also don't think there will be any game changing or profound innovations in call making...though sure there will always be something a little different (mostly in presentation/adornment) and we see it all the time and that is part of the fun.
Shannon, for me is it similar...but as I sit around sanding and fitting up calls I start thinking about these things and all the good folks who came before me and those that will follow. Just a yankee doing a little wondering?
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Great question of will there be another Cost, Adams or Gibson. I think the answer is no however, I believe there are great call makers that are well known and some not so well known, that have carried on the tradition of excellent hand crafted calls, that are in demand because hunters and collectors can't afford the original of those great call makers, but can afford those that time will place those call makers on a level of the greats. I think if you look at the list of consistant call makers that have captured recognition at the annual NWTF competition, you will see some great call makers in that list. however, there are plenty of others that don't enter, but have a reputation of making great calls that are in demand and you have to wait a long time to receive one. But it is a great question!
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I never met Neil in person. I did speak to him by phone a time or two and he referred me to Lamar and Steve. This was probably only a year or two before he passed away. Through hearing about Neil and reading the stories told here and on other forums I do have a great respect for the man.
I will say this, Neil was without question the most notable custom call maker of his time. Neil's legend is due in large part to his personality and skills, and also due to his proximity and relationship with the NWTF. What really distinguishes Neil from other call makers of the era was the books and the videos produced about his calls. There are those that say the NWTF/Mickel/Branton-Berryhill made Neil famous, and some others say that some of those parties exploited Neil as well. I'll let those closer to Neil make that call.
The shame about turkey call history is that so much of the history is anecdotal and/or oral history. There is a tremendous amount of revisionist history as well. In all too many cases there are certain facts and accomplishments which are overlooked in order to bolster certain call makers images. As far as history goes, I place Neil somewhere behind Lynch and Turpin. Those two were the pioneers of turkey call making and virtually all modern turkey call designs(including Neil's) find their root there. I put Neil in a class of his own as the first "famous" custom turkey call maker.
To answer your question. There wont be another Neil Cost. The turkey call making and collecting fraternity wont allow for it. This forum like other turkey forums is the classic example why. Infighting, bickering, gossipping, jealousy and whatnot will prevent any one maker from achieving the notariety of Neil in the future. This is a shame as there are a handful of call makers right now who are equal or superior to Neil in their respective call making genres.
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Chad,
You are right on in my opinion.
*cheers*
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Wiltz made some very valid & interesting points. I agree with most of what he has stated. I'd be interested to hear some responses from the more prominent collectors, those who have been around a while.
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Unfortunately, most of the names in the turkey call business didn't achive real fame, untill they passed away, Neil was an exception. Will there be another Cost, Turpin, or Adams? I probably won't see it, but I believe someone will rank up there w/ those names. There is always room at the top! I do disagree w/ Chad's statement that Neil rode on the backs of the likes of Lynch and Turpin. The design and style he pioneered is nothing like either of these two. Both used straight sided box calls, while Neil used an angled sided design, which changed the world of box calls, forever. Simply look at the the results of the call competitions, and you will see the Cost influence and the impact he had. If we are going to look to the roots of the box call, we need look no further than Gibson.
Golf is a totally different animal. Fame is based on $$ and rankings. Who knew that Tiger would fade almost as quickly as he was on top? I had a theory about Tiger which proved to be true. It took a while to be proven, but, I always said he had everyone on tour, psyched out. If you take a quick look at the world rankings today, you see names, most people won't recognize.
Bill
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Wow, what a question. I really like the thoughts and opinions a few of you have answered here.
Callmaking is like a sport for a simple comparison(bare with me here). There are those that get into it for the love of the game, and those that get into it for the reward.This alone determines the true success and longevity anyone will have in their chosen path. The love of the reward causes a loss in the art of the game. It confuses and clouds the reason or passion that should be in ones heart.Without that passion, ya loose focus and the real reason the venture was ever taken to begin with. Compare this with countless athletes that have risen fast to stardome only to reach success and suddenly the game left their heart, and failure ensued.
The same holds true with callmaking. Great callmakers have been mentioned here that span along period of time. Wheither there will ever again be a Cost,Turpin or Gibson is dertermined more by the hunters and collectors that are smart enough to realize the ones that have a sincere passion for the art and for the ones he builds the calls for. Considering the hundreds of callmakers there have been,HOMAGE and honor for the ones that pioneered the art should never be forgot and honored approprietlly. Those fore fathers that did it from passion and love of the sport will always be on a different playing field in my opnion.
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The thing that sets the great callmakers of yesterday , apart from those of today , is that they did something innovative that changed the turkey calls construction . Neil Cost added angled sides to a hewed out boxcall and decorated it by chiseling his fancy checkering . This he found out added to the raspy sound the call made . Mike Lynch found his place in callmaking by laminating sawn pices of wood into his famous world champion call . Henry Gibson made his mark by being business saavvy enough to patent his caller design .
There is room for someone to make it to the stage of being memorable , but it will take a very innovative change to make it happen . I look forward to the future of callmaking and what might still be in store for us !!
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This is all great stuff guys and thanks for chiming in....just what I was hoping to read. All have made some very sound points covering the history that was and the possible history that could be.
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I never met Neil in person. I did speak to him by phone a time or two and he referred me to Lamar and Steve. This was probably only a year or two before he passed away. Through hearing about Neil and reading the stories told here and on other forums I do have a great respect for the man.
I will say this, Neil was without question the most notable custom call maker of his time. Neil's legend is due in large part to his personality and skills, and also due to his proximity and relationship with the NWTF. What really distinguishes Neil from other call makers of the era was the books and the videos produced about his calls. There are those that say the NWTF/Mickel/Branton-Berryhill made Neil famous, and some others say that some of those parties exploited Neil as well. I'll let those closer to Neil make that call.
The shame about turkey call history is that so much of the history is anecdotal and/or oral history. There is a tremendous amount of revisionist history as well. In all too many cases there are certain facts and accomplishments which are overlooked in order to bolster certain call makers images. As far as history goes, I place Neil somewhere behind Lynch and Turpin. Those two were the pioneers of turkey call making and virtually all modern turkey call designs(including Neil's) find their root there. I put Neil in a class of his own as the first "famous" custom turkey call maker.
To answer your question. There wont be another Neil Cost. The turkey call making and collecting fraternity wont allow for it. This forum like other turkey forums is the classic example why. Infighting, bickering, gossipping, jealousy and whatnot will prevent any one maker from achieving the notariety of Neil in the future. This is a shame as there are a handful of call makers right now who are equal or superior to Neil in their respective call making genres.
Amen Chad...especially on the last paragraph...
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I agree with Shadetree. There have been some great artists (call making is as much art as science with a bit of alchemy tossed in) who have done great things. What sets many artists apart is innovation. The next great call maker/artist will not improve the design of what exists. The next great call maker will give us something new in design or materials. To make the art great we, the turkey hunting community, have to accept it. If we reject innovation because it is different we will never advance. For innovation we need to stop trying to make the future represent or resemble the past. It is simple to get people to accept a new idea, what is difficult is getting them to replace the old ideas.
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Very good read, and good point of conversation Scott. I don't think there will ever be another D.D. Adams or Neil Cost. Like Bill said, most didn't really become famous until they passed, much like other artists. We never truly realize what we have until its gone. That is sad. There are already hundreds of different styles of calls, made by different materials, in different shapes and sizes, from here in the U.S. to other countries over seas. ALL come together in one way, to make the same sound of a turkey, That in its self is amazing. No other game call can claim that. I truly believe the next pioneer in the sport already walks among us, history just hasn't recorded yet. One of the greatest challenges call makers have today is a dwindling client base. Hunter recruitment, be it child or adult, could be the next recipient of history's acclamation. Making a call that calls children to the sport, as much as it calls the bird to the barrel, to me, would be a great accomplishment. I think the greatness will be from those who help teach the art and promote the sport, give Atta-boys to the young craftsman starting out. You all are gonna pass the torch someday, who's gonna be there to receive it, and will the flame still be burning when its passed?
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I love reading this stuff and learning about call makers of the past, as well as the opinions of those of you who have been around to see some of this lineage develope. I'm going to throw a little different twist into this discussion though. Hopefully I don't talk in circles or get long winded, so in an effort to prevent this, I'll only write in the context of box calls. I'm 21 years old. I don't know of too many custom call makers or collectors under 30 (I know there are some, Josh Shoemaker to name one, but there has to be others that are slipping my mind at the moment). With that being said, this art is riding on the seasoned hunters who know the history. For me, Neil Cost is an icon. It's like something out of a history book for me because he was gone before I got into all of this. He was the pioneer of these calls that we all love (this all goes for Gibson, Turpin, etc as well). Those were the men that a lot of you got the chance to know and they formed sort of a following if you will. For me, though, my "Neil Cost's" are the likes of Scott Basehore, Ed Terefencko, Mike Lapp, Marlin Watkins, etc. (there are more, just don't want to write a book listing them here). Yes, Mr. Cost will always be like "the grand daddy of them all" but these other call makers that are proceeding me, just like Mr. Cost proceeded them, are the ones that set the standard for my generation to try and reach. I don't know if that made sense, and I'm not trying to get anyone fired up, but just trying to add a little different "younger" view point. So, Scott, to answer your question, maybe there already is another "Neil Cost" out there. I'm not saying his legacy will ever been over taken, or that he'll ever be forgotten because as long as I live and am telling people about the art of custom call making, he will always be the first mentioned. But what I'm trying to say is, there are already other call makers building a legacy of their own that deserve to be remembered as well.
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I'd say the torch HAS been passed, and its still lit !! Amen Austin, every time I think of the youth coming forward, my thoughts turn to you ! Well said
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I believe change is inevitable. The callmakers of the past have established their niche in callmaking history and their influences still resonate through the sport. They were innovators with the ability to look at things from a different point of view. I believe someone will have a unique perspective that leads to a new, previously unthought of way to approach making a call. That person may already be one of the fine callmakers currently building calls, maybe it will be one of the younger breed just getting their start, maybe it's someone yet to get started. What has led to new advances in our lives has been the innate curiosity that is part of us as human beings. Just over a hundred years ago the idea of manned flight was only an idea, yet now we send machines out of the solar system. I believe that same curiosity and desire for something more will also drive all callmakers to look for something new and they will find it. Thanks to all who are willing to share their knowledge of the past and present and continue to encourage those with the desire to search for something better.
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I believe change is inevitable. The callmakers of the past have established their niche in callmaking history and their influences still resonate through the sport. They were innovators with the ability to look at things from a different point of view. I believe someone will have a unique perspective that leads to a new, previously unthought of way to approach making a call. That person may already be one of the fine callmakers currently building calls, maybe it will be one of the younger breed just getting their start, maybe it's someone yet to get started. What has led to new advances in our lives has been the innate curiosity that is part of us as human beings. Just over a hundred years ago the idea of manned flight was only an idea, yet now we send machines out of the solar system. I believe that same curiosity and desire for something more will also drive all callmakers to look for something new and they will find it. Thanks to all who are willing to share their knowledge of the past and present and continue to encourage those with the desire to search for something better.
Well said, and I agree totally with you Mike. We have legends and more will appear. The Turpin, Cost, Lynch, names will always be honored. Someday another name or two from the newer generation will also honored.
Interesting stuff.
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There are many breathing the same air as you who possess the equipment and the ear to produce as good or better turkey calling instrument as has ever been made. They may not know that they have the ear or the skill and they may not have the desire, but they are out there just the same. The ear, the skill with equipment and the desire, the idea, that is what it takes. The turkey cares not who produced the instrument that produced the sound that he cannot resist. Consistently produce an instrument that produces that sound and you are as good as it gets.
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Very good topic Scott! Perhaps a little different slant but it seems like each generation has its icon's. A very few of those make it to legendary status. Sometimes it could be due to their innovations. It could be due to simply to having name recognition and notoriety. Not saying they were not very good at what they did but were there others laboring away as well that didn't get the recognition because they weren't in the rite spot at the rite time? Perhaps it was more due to their dedication and longevity in the craft. Was there another out there that had a really new idea but just didn't pursue it enuff? Who knows? It remains to be seen if the stars line up for other current (or future) callmakers to achieve the "legend status". Personally I think there are a bunch of great candidates out there. I think the future generations will decide that based on a lot of factors that may or may not include actually making calls. And just one more point, you are asking callmakers who know who these folks are and what their contributions were. I am thinking that the legends were not "made" so much by other callmakers as much as call users and at some point collectors. Wonder if the question was posed to them what the response would be. Having said all this I am not trying to take one ounce or credit or glory or whatever from the folks mentioned. Cost, Turpin, Lynch, ect., in fact, I agree as to their contributions and well earned fame. Just saying that it seems to me that a lot more goes into making a legend than just building a call.
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IMO the answer to that is No, This I my 7 th year building box calls and in that time span I have learned quite a bit about calls and wood and tuning, There is more to learn always but If you have ever built calls you can appreciate the fact of the design of Neil Cost, to be able to envision that style call and make it a reality to me is something of Legends. As Bill said you need to look no further than the table at Nashville to see his influence. On the flip side of that I feel like alot of todays callmakers are building better sounding calls, but they are simply taking a design and improving on it with different wood combos and dimensions. I dont think that will make you a Legend but can make you a great Callmaker. Only time will tell if any new "Legends" are out there...