Osage Roost
General Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: longbeard48 on December 10, 2016, 12:04:38 PM
-
Today I was trying to decide about how to go about decorating my call for the scratch box hunting call division at Nashville and it dawned on me that I have been doing this each year for the last several years. In this division, the sound is all that should matter, yet, each year I have noticed calls becoming more and more decorative, and I believe this has become the norm because call makers have become aware that the judges are somewhat impressed with the appearance of the call, possibly even more than the sound. I believe that the hunting call class should be limited to calls that are not decorated in any form or fashion.
Maybe I just got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, >:( hence, I invite the opinions of my peers...
-
Only been making scratch boxes for a few years, but I agree with you. Too much these days is put on just how pretty the call is and not towards the sound. Much of this is due to how the NWTF goes about choosing judges. For years there has been a complaint that "call makers" should not be used as judges. Well, my two cents worth.............as long as the call maker does not have calls entered in the class they judge, its' fine with me. At least, they know how to play calls! After watching the last three years judging (working calls), and seeing judges simply pick a call up and scoring them without attempting to play them OR attempting to play them and not being able to OR asking another judge to play the call and scoring it that way, I have no confidence in the process! I would just appreciate it if when anyone's calls are in the contest, that the judges playing them could at least score them based on the NWTF guide lines.
Bill
-
Try entering the Buckeye Challenge. We have 5 competent and qualified judges who are capable of running all types of calls . And I can assure you that every call will be judged properly and scored fairly. We will be adopting the scoring method that Pat Strawser started at the Keystone Classic. All 5 scores will be used . We will not throw out high score and low scores. Contest entry deadline is January 4th. calls due by January 12th. Competition on January 14, 2017. Everyone is welcome to send calls and the doors are open to everyone who wants to come.
-
Thanks, Bill, for your thoughts! So true.
Thanks, Bob, for the invite! Sounds like a great competition!
Tom
-
Couldn't agree more. Per the guidelines, judging is by sound and ease of use only. I have been wondering how limited the pool of qualified judges must be for suction type callers: trumpets, wingbones and Jordans.
I've also heard it suggested that a piece of tape be put over the callmaker's signature.
-
The suction division is the most difficult to obtain "qualified judges". I have seen judges just stand around and listen to someone else play the calls and then score them!
Bill
-
As long as they sound GREAT it doesn't matter what they look like. However a call maker puts pride and effort in his work and represents a true American folk art. I personally don't want an ugly or plain Jane call to represent my ability of the craft in front of hundreds of very critical people. That being said, the judges should only vote per the criteria of the rules. Sound, ease of play, volume, etc.....by the way Tom your scratchers are always beautiful and my Oregon Myrtle with chinaberry striker really talks the talk! *ride*
-
[by the way Tom your scratchers are always beautiful and my Oregon Myrtle with chinaberry striker really talks the talk! *ride*
[/quote]
Thanks for the compliment! Bill Henkle introduced me to myrtle years ago! Thanks, Bill! For the last couple of years I've pretty much limited my call woods to Myrtle, Walnut and "Genuine" Mahogany. Poor old Chinaberry! Strikers are all I believe those trees are good for, except for producing some great slingshot ammo early in the summer, but kids these days don't appreciate that!
-
Rant away brother Tom!! You got backup here for sure.... *peep*
-
I know what you mean. When we were writing the rules for Great Lakes Open we discussed the same thing. We were going to let bases be scored in the final best of show, but decided it make sense because it is a hunting competition and the bases wont bring you a bird. We are going to judge on 5 things and not one of them has anything to do with the way a call looks.
On another note I am faced with t problem. I want to compete in the competition but am afraid to do so because i am running the competition. I wasn't planning on doing any judging in the categories I enter, but was just wondering if be seen funny if i win something with me running the show. What do you all think
-
I have no problem with you entering calls. In fact, yours will probably be scrutinized harder because of your running the show.
Bill
-
Since I am chairing the Buckeye Challenge, I will not compete in the c9mp. I personally don't want any doubt cast upon any winners, myself 8ncluded. In my opinion my place is to run the contest, not compete. There are plenty of other contests to get in.
-
The suction division is the most difficult to obtain "qualified judges". I have seen judges just stand around and listen to someone else play the calls and then score them!
Bill
Dang you Bill *peep* *peep*
You let the cat out of the bag !!! *lol*
I didn't think anyone noticed my Judging *stu*
Dave
-
Twernt you, Dave!!!! ROTFLMBO ROTFLMBO ROTFLMBO ROTFLMBO
Bill
-
lets hope all goes well this year,...anxious just to see everyone and visit a little.
Pat
-
Good luck this year on the friction stage Pat, looking forward to watching and hearing your perform.
Scott
-
Three things, I have observed over 20 years of making and entering yelpers in the NWTF contest, that influences judges:
If the caller looks good it is better (sex sells).
If the caller weighs more it is better.
If the caller feels good in the users hands it is better.
These three things will make the difference in how well a call places in it's category.
-
Very interesting observations Ralph. The way the human mind works they all make sense. I have witnessed this in the art/antique/artifact market as well.
-
One more thing, better to show under a judge that likes your type of dog, if you know what I mean.
The NWTF judges will be available on Friday the 17th from noon to 1PM, at the hunting call and decorative call areas. (Yes, some judges are novices but that is the way things are.) This time is a good opportunity to find out not only what they liked about your call, but what had gone against you in not making a cut or pulled you down in a category ranking.
Small things make a difference. Some examples: if you have judges scores that are close together in a category, the difference between a placement can be one point. That is when knowing if high pitched call or low pitched one, might be preferred by those judging, or for pots, if one type of surface, say copper or glass is liked. Past judges and folks who really know how to run a call are good resources for critiquing a call.
In the decorative division. To get ahead of those entries that are the same year after year but consistent winners, an entry must have the "Wow factor". Learn new skills to incorporate into calls, new ways of presentation, visit museums, look to nature. This is where you get ideas and find ways to move up in the categories of the decorative division.
In the end what matters is improving your call making.
Enter the contests, one never knows.
Ralph
-
Good advise Ralph! That is the very reason I only entered my old school boxes for a couple of years. I developed one of my calls from hunting vast areas of willow flats and heavy stands of old hardwoods here in Mississippi, next to the Big River, for 40 years. My calls are not "Sexy". They are big, heavy, and you have to know how to play them. When I had a friend callmaker tell me that the judges came to my calls and 3 knew how to play them and 2 could not, I quit entering. I make an old style call that suits the hunting style of some hunters. In my college days, I learned to make duck calls under the late great southern duck call maker, Jimmy Riddell. He would make 250-300 calls a year. In the Fall groups of hunters would come by to pick out a call. He would say "Now watch these 5 boys, they will pick up the same call. Each will take turns blowing it. ALL will sound different on it. - It will suit the style of ONE. Nashville is a dog and pony show. Glad I do not have to judge TOP DOG. Mr. E
-
Outside of the panel of judges inside the curtains,....one of the more attractive things about the contest is that you let 50,000 people have access to your calls,..they can touch, feel, run them. It's the best 20 bucks you could spend if you want to exhibit your work to the public.
-
I think I have read this thread at least four times. There was a time (when I first began judging working calls) that all the judges were gathered together and warned not to talk to each other, while judging. Those days a long gone! I haven't judged in two years, mainly because I was burned out but also because I was seeing judges discussing calls as they judged them. To me, this is a form of collusion and completely wrong. How pretty a call is or what materials it was made from or who made it, isn't what this competition was designed for! Let the chips fall where they may, LEAVE the politics at the door........judge the calls for what they were meant for.......killing turkeys! Either that, or throw the D.A.M.N. thing at a turkey and see how well that works for you!
Bill
-
Well put Bill until the get turkeys to judge it will never change.
-
I think I have read this thread at least four times. There was a time (when I first began judging working calls) that all the judges were gathered together and warned not to talk to each other, while judging. Those days a long gone! I haven't judged in two years, mainly because I was burned out but also because I was seeing judges discussing calls as they judged them. To me, this is a form of collusion and completely wrong. How pretty a call is or what materials it was made from or who made it, isn't what this competition was designed for! Let the chips fall where they may, LEAVE the politics at the door........judge the calls for what they were meant for.......killing turkeys! Either that, or throw the D.A.M.N. thing at a turkey and see how well that works for you!
Bill
Very well said. Thank you.
-
I know that there are lots of scratch boxes that sound better than mine, but I just started this thread because SOME of those that I have played in the past did not sound as good, in my opinion, as mine did, and yet they were judged to be better than mine. I want to be clear, here: I am fully aware that there are much better sounding calls at the Grand Nationals than my Mississippi Scratch Boxes. I don't mean to be crying on any shoulders, here, and my camo cap is off to the vast majority of the scratch box winners each year!
-
I would never ever enter a call, have no use for politics or proving myself to strangers. I only sell a few to people I know mostly, and only make them when I feel like it. Some years I make none. Have heard numerous stories about having to pay your dues before getting wins, waiting your turn, etc. That just tells me the best calls dont win and its about who you know. They can have it & I`ll never join the NWTF either.
-
I know that there are lots of scratch boxes that sound better than mine, but I just started this thread because SOME of those that I have played in the past did not sound as good, in my opinion, as mine did, and yet they were judged to be better than mine. I want to be clear, here: I am fully aware that there are much better sounding calls at the Grand Nationals than my Mississippi Scratch Boxes. I don't mean to be crying on any shoulders, here, and my camo cap is off to the vast majority of the scratch box winners each year!
Tom
I think there is something about waiting your turn...........whatever the heck that is! I have calls from most of the folks who win, it seems, perennially. Folks have asked me if there is club you have to be in to win and I answer, NO. But winning is good for business. The competition is for the most part, stiff. With many times only a point or a half point separating first from second. The same goes for the lesser positions in each class. BUT, the NWTF does very little to vet judges and in many case, they have to scramble around to find judges at the last minute. When you do that, you are asking for problems and open up the discussion/rumor gates. Unfortunately, the main emphasis is still on Duck and Goose calls. The rank and file turkey hunters could care less!
Bill
-
So i started asking a lot of callmakers their opinions about entering calls if you part of the contest (judging, scoring, organizing, & Etc). I heard from a lot of guys saying they would advise against it. So i decided I am not going to even enter the GLO in March. I want to have a show that is build on integrity and trust worthy.